Curse

Lord Sojar · Oct 01, 2007, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Guild Wars has been around for quite a while now. It has seen player base growth, lots of added content, and seemingly endless design changes.

Arena Net came about after 3 men were profoundly tired of the traditional MMO. They wanted to develop a game free of massive grind, and reward players for their mastery of the game (skill) versus their time spent playing (grind). The original Guild Wars came of this. The game was well rounded and continued to develop. That development made balance, and the balance made the game a hit with reviewers and critics, as well as its growing player base.

Now, let us fast forward from the time where Sorrow's Furnace was added etc to Factions. The game saw massive community growth, and while it can be argued that Factions was not the greatest chapter in Guild Wars history, it did have a solid platform.

Now, titles came to be. Here was the beginning of something that was to plague the original inception of the game. Titles are a reward for the time spent playing the game, and are really no indication of skill. Granted, some of the titles may lead another player to believe you have experience, and some do indeed prove that, but most are simply proof that you had the time to grind.

The game community continued to grow, and the much anticipated release of Guild Wars: Nightfall came to pass. The community saw RAPID growth, nothing short of a population surge. Guild Wars Nightfall is probably seen as the strongest of all Chapters/Expansions to date, because of the content and uniqueness it offered. The graphical improvements to the game were impressive, despite the aging game engine. It added 2 character classes, however, that were less then popular (especially the Paragon after extensive "nerfing" of many skills) Nightfall also introduced something very powerful and destructive to the community... grinding requirements. Yes, in order for Elonian character to advance in the story line, they had to achieve a specific sunspear rank. Now, this requirement typically wasn't hard to meet provided you did a decent number of side quests in the game and killed a fair amount of creatures rather then running around. Luckily, for Nightfall, the Sunspear title didn't affect players in any other manner (until PvE only skills came to pass much later) The Lightbringer rank was a much different story. While it was not required for any part of game completion, quests and side story sections did not provide this title in the least. This title is purely grind based, and here truly began the current issue with the vision of Guild Wars.

Time passed, people played the game, some players left, but many more came into the game then left. The population of the game continued to expand, and little by little, Arena Net began to tighten its grip on players, being less reserved about banning individuals because of the growing game population.

Eye of the North was announced, and was seen to be what players had been asking for. An expansion at a reduced cost that added much needed content, new armors, and PvE gameplay updates that made PvE more of a challenge without just increasing monster level.

And then Eye of the North came out. The preview weekend was a disaster, as the Hall of Monuments was either incomplete or ill planned with rapid changes occurring after so much negative feedback. Ahhh, but what of after the preview?

Eye of the North brought with it the final bullet that shot the original vision the game was founded on, Time<Skill. Players no longer needed skill, not with powerful PvE skill combinations, Consumables, and heroes. Titles reflected this new attitude to the fullest, with each faction in the game requiring a HUGE amount of grind, especially to reach max levels. The titles give a PvE player an edge in their corresponding areas (Asura being +X energy for example) However, this was far from the bigger issue. Armors, consumables, and weapons are only craftable after acquiring a specific level of the title. The biggest one being armor, which requires rank 5 of the corresponding faction to be able to speak with the crafter. It takes quite a while (especially for specific title tracks) to grind your way to these ranks. While some people may have found a way to do this more quickly then others, the fact remains it takes a casual player quite a long time to grind so many points. After all of this, most of the armors were simply reskins of old armors rather then unique creations. Dwarven armor (being the same cost as the other factions armors) cannot even be placed into the Hall of Monuments (which was an ill concieved attempt to coerce veteran players into buying EotN in order to benefit in GW2).

Essentially, the basis by which Guild Wars was founded has changed dramatically. Rather then rewarding a player for learning how to master their character and counter each new area with a specific build/tactic, the game now rewards those that can sit down for hours at a time and play until their eyes or blood shot. The players that no longer have the time nor the inclination to do this are left behind, because they cannot devote enough time to grind the amounts required for armor sets or special bonuses.

Time is not greater then skill. Arena Net continues to ignore the complaints, stating that they are proud of Eye of the North, and that their community is satisfied with it. And now, with the new Report system and Dishonor, the vision becomes even more skewed. The threat of being banned is daunting, with many of the good natured players having to think twice about what they type for fear of it being offensive to someone. With such a convenient method of reporting people, the childish players will simply abuse the system in order to wreak havoc on unsuspecting players they are either jealous of or just plain dislike. The simple solution would be to hire in game moderators that have an excellent sense of honor, creditability, and desire to see the community improve. Arena Net has placed this system into the game with hopes that somehow, their problems will just disappear. They won't. Many of the problems were brought on by themselves, others by the fanbase they have unintentionally lured into the game.

The fact is, Arena Net has become to focused on their next project and another dollar made, rather then their current game and their veteran players who truly enjoy the game. They have betrayed their veteran players, changing the entire vision of the game into a stagnant MMO, one filled with grind and people complaining. While people cannot be controlled, the basis by which the game is written on can be. Instead of focusing on drawing in another customer who enjoys the grind (WoW retirees for example), Arena Net needs to focus on appeasing their veteran players, and upholding their original promises. They stand by their product, but they change the thing they stand by so radically, it no longer resembles what they started with. It is like standing up your your best friend who is a woman only to turn the next second to see a man standing there beside you. Arena Net may not make as much money focusing on a niche of the gaming community, but at least it would make the game unique and radically different. Appealing to the masses isn't always the best route. Quite the opposite really, finding a niche can truly be rewarding. Many people dislike the final fantasy series, yet it is one of the most successful franchises because Square Enix stands by what they originally developed; a turn based well rounded balanced RPG with a dynamic story line and a brilliant design. Certainly, a few things they improved on were disliked, and they made further changes to those to appeal to their audience. However, the core of the Final Fantasy series remains. Rather then revising the basis on which a game is founded on, Arena Net needs to change simple dynamics. Several improvements they made were very well done, but ill conceived based on the fanbase. It is too late to change Guild Wars, which is where Guild Wars 2 may "save the day."

Another issue that plagues the game isn't Arena Net's doing. As much as we would love to pin the blame on them for everything, we must at some point, find only ourselves to blame. We are cruel to each other, crude and vile in every sense of the words. The simple fact that the community has such an inner hatred is disappointing, and totally uncalled for. Guild Wars players are, in general, the least helpful and most reserved online gaming community. Part of this is the fault of Arena Net for introducing single player elements into an MMO, but part of it falls on our shoulders, being selfish and unsocial. The fact is, in comparison to WoW or EQ, our community is extremely anti social, and unwelcoming. I have been playing the Tabula Rasa beta, and the community even in Beta differs drastically. Everyone is very talkative, social, and outgoing. The bad part is, the Guild Wars community will never be that way, because the game draws in players who are anti social. Guild Wars has become somewhat of a single player MMO (or in most cases, a 2 player adventure game). Heroes are both a blessing and plague, and this is where the blame falls on Arena Net, but also you must feel sorry for their situation. Rather then ignoring peoples' complaints about PUG groups, Arena Net introduced heroes. This started a new niche for the game that was in almost all ways, not beneficial or needed. I see threads calling for 7-Hero teams to be permitted. This change would only create an even larger rift between the player base, and probably ruin what little social environment is left. I immediately noticed how much more antisocial the community has become from the response in the Oktoberfest thread versus that of the Ascalon Royal Family Masquerade Ball. The community is continuing to drift farther and farther apart, and it is opening the question... "How much is Guild Wars an MMO as it is an online RPG?" Not only does Arena Net need to change, but we as a community need to stop being so self serving and be more humble about those we play with. Accepting others and their style of play makes you the better person. Our mentality, however, has developed because of Time being more important then skill. We want to get things done more quickly, which is more easily accomplished with all Hero/Hench parties then in a PUG.

Unfortunately, making another dollar another day is all big companies seem to be about. There are few game studios left that listen to their fanbase, and don't change their game just because it doesn't satisfy the majority... but there are some, and it is those few that are respected for their dignity, not their public image. If dignity wisdom have a price, Arena Net is in financial trouble. Such a pity to see the game I once so enjoyed devolve into another run of the mill MMO. I sincerely hope that Arena Net comes to realize that being niche isn't bad, just like they started off as. I hope Guild Wars 2 sees the realization of this fact, and I wish them the best in their endeavors.

Best Wishes,

Connor

Quote:

Originally Posted by trielementz

armor is only used as an **example**. it is not the crux of the issue here. in prophecies, you get elite armor based on location. this led to runners running low levels to elite armor outposts. they fixed this in factions, nightfall so you had to play the game to get to certain outposts to get armor. fair enough. compare it to EOTN, where they slapped a title requirement on **all** armors. do you see the evolution?

the crux of this entire thread is the reason behind his evolution. why did they add the title requirement? is it to reward skill? you said it yourself.. you had to bounty hunt 2 or 3 times. why should we have to do that in the first place? i agree that it is very very simple to do, but that only means it is no indication of skill. to add longevity to the game? the old style (ala factions, nightfall) would have been to let players unlock the armor after you've completed the mission line for one of the races.

again, the issue is NOT about buying armors per se. it's the reason behind some of the features that have been implemented in EOTN, and how they clash totally with the founding principles of Prophecies and Guild Wars.

Brianna · Oct 01, 2007, 06:49 AM // 06:49

Well: I will personally say that I am sick of the grinding to rank 5 to get armor deal, I mean really, whats the logical point?: If one, I bet it can be revised.

But yeah, once something/someone gets up on it's feet, to a higher position, whatever helped it gain that position is generally swept under the rug, this is nearly natural human behavior.

Now on the other hand people with good values wouldn't do that, but that is all just a generalization. Not really saying anything about A-Net as I never pay much attention to stuff like this. Best not to put a foot in my mouth.

On a side note, when factions came out, I literally despised it so much that I never played it until near Nightfall release: Now I love factions, and furthermore it is my favorite campaign now, guess I just love its atmosphere. And I generally despise Gw:En, and for different reasons Nightfall as always (Only personal reasons.. hate the atmosphere).

But eh, whatever really. I stopped caring long ago about anything, I just play and do things for myself these days, not caring much about who passes by or what passes by, Perhaps I'm in my own little world now.

Curse You · Oct 01, 2007, 06:50 AM // 06:50

I'll say this, I've never been a fan of farming.

I have 10 PvE characters, all of which are level 20. You can imagine how much work it is to make enough money to pay for them all.

I farm, yes, I'll admit that. However, I don't enjoy it. I can never get myself to do more that 3 farming runs in a row.

So you can imagine how I feel about having to get the same rank, by doing the same thing on 10 different characters.

I know many of these things you don't "have" to get them up high. But then again, I don't "have" to play this game either. It's my choice, and I would have preferred that the game I choose nearly 2 years ago had remained on track.

When I first realized that Lightbringer gave an advantage to those who got it up high (by farming), I remember thinking, "Great, now I'll be required to farm." That was long before PvE skills came about.

Zethron Ahriman · Oct 01, 2007, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Very good post. I feel the same way you do, and unfortunately for me Guild Wars isn't the same it was before. I remember I used to like being in PUGs and failing, and then discussing in the outpost what we will do better, and having another crack at it, then came the introduction of heroes, PvE skills etc. People stopped partying, no longer needing that extra human player. Yet, I still forced myself (yes I didn't even wanna buy GW:EN, and haven't played it yet, even though I got it 2 weeks ago

) to buy GWEN in a hope that things would indeed be differen't, bringing that extra spark of life into the game, yet I don't wanna play it, with all the negative feedback i've heard lately, and I am seriously considering quitting GW

makes me sad, seeming I remember staying up till 3 am playing this game like a religion back in Prophecies (probaly wasnt healthy). I'm gonna give GW:EN a crack tomorrow when I get some time, and will make my decision. Guild Wars is pretty much, in one word, stale at the moment.

~Zeth

baz777 · Oct 01, 2007, 06:58 AM // 06:58

I now only play one of my characters through the new campaign since I just cannot face doing such repetitive grind on more than one.

Lord Sojar · Oct 01, 2007, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna

Well: I will personally say that I am sick of the grinding to rank 5 to get armor deal, I mean really, whats the logical point?: If one, I bet it can be revised.

But yeah, once something/someone gets up on it's feet, to a higher position, whatever helped it gain that position is generally swept under the rug, this is nearly natural human behavior.

Now on the other hand people with good values wouldn't do that, but that is all just a generalization. Not really saying anything about A-Net as I never pay much attention to stuff like this. Best not to put a foot in my mouth.

On a side note, when factions came out, I literally despised it so much that I never played it until near Nightfall release: Now I love factions, and furthermore it is my favorite campaign now, guess I just love its atmosphere. And I generally despise Gw:En, and for different reasons Nightfall as always (Only personal reasons.. hate the atmosphere).

But eh, whatever really. I stopped caring long ago about anything, I just play and do things for myself these days, not caring much about who passes by or what passes by, Perhaps I'm in my own little world now.

Exactly, you like so many others have cocooned themselves into their own little Guild Wars world, and the social environment has all but disappeared. This really isn't our fault though, it is Arena Net's for creating a grind based MMO forcing players to be machine-like and exacting in their farming, so that the end result is more quickly acquired. Meanwhile, a resentment for inefficiency forms, and we become hostile to those players that are new to the game, forcing them into their own cocoon. A vicious cycle, but it almost seems impossible to avoid given the current image/design of the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

When I first realized that Lightbringer gave an advantage to those who got it up high (by farming), I remember thinking, "Great, now I'll be required to farm." That was long before PvE skills came about.

This was the beginning of the end for Time<Skill concept. The Lightbringer rank symbolizes the start of Time>Skill, because it gave a big advantage to players (particularly to damage dealers) later in the game when facing demons (which happens to be where most of the high end rewards were found [See Domain of Anguish])

Racthoh · Oct 01, 2007, 07:03 AM // 07:03

The title bonuses are useless in GW:EN as they only apply to the area that you're grinding to achieve them. In the time it takes you to grind the title to rank 5 you'll probably have made all of the gold necessary to craft an entire armour set so it's win win it my eyes. Personally I was rank 5 in all of the titles (rank 7 in dwarf since everything gives dwarf points) after completing the main story, the majority of the side quests, and all of the dungeons. Okay I had to spend about two hours clearing some charr to get vanguard to rank 5.

Save Yourselves!, There's Nothing To Fear!, and Seed of Life are the only really good PvE only skills. Great Dwarf Weapon and You Move Like A Dwarf! are the only other skills with useful applications.

Consumables... yeah, what were they thinking. If you haven't tried using them yet, don't, otherwise you'll wonder how you ever had troubles ever in PvE.

Also, paragons are still broken.

t_the_nihilst · Oct 01, 2007, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna

Well: I will personally say that I am sick of the grinding to rank 5 to get armor deal, I mean really, whats the logical point?: If one, I bet it can be revised.

IMO, I think these EotN titles should be account based, but I know that doesn't make much sense story wise :/

-Loki- · Oct 01, 2007, 07:08 AM // 07:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

When I first realized that Lightbringer gave an advantage to those who got it up high (by farming), I remember thinking, "Great, now I'll be required to farm." That was long before PvE skills came about.

Actually, that was when PvE skills came about, not before. Lightbringers Gaze, Lightbringers Signet.

t_the_nihilst · Oct 01, 2007, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Okay I had to spend about two hours clearing some charr to get vanguard to rank 5.

Maybe you can call me a "noob" for saying this and that's fine, but it took me a hell of a lot longer than 2 hours to get to r5 Vanguard. The storyline leaves you at roughly r2-3. The runs took me anywhere from 30-40 minutes each (I wasn't rushing and I was thorough to makes sure I took advantage of all the kill bonuses). I did many, many of those runs.

r5 isn't exaclty a sweep under the rug.

Lord Sojar · Oct 01, 2007, 07:13 AM // 07:13

But really, this thread wasn't created to nit pick each feature. It was created to really show what has happened to Arena Net in hopes of enlightening those that couldn't see this devolution occurring. The simple fact that a lot of people complain about these features is a sign that something is very wrong.

The problem is, it is too late to change it. Guild Wars is finished (not speaking as in its over, everyone is going to /ragequit, but rather the franchise of GW1 is done) and GW2 may open a new light to the series. We can only hope, but it seems putting hope into a company like what Arena Net has evolved into at this point is a fruitless waste of time, only to end in disappointment. Guild Wars 2 will, unless ANET changes dramatically back to their roots, a collection of the most popular MMO elements, and will only astray farther from the original vision of Time<Skill.

Zeroed · Oct 01, 2007, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Good post with some interesting insight.

I think that one of the problems with PvE in the game (that has been there from the beginning) is that the missions, that are required for progression in the storyline, simply take too much time.

In my opinion, part of the players' attitude to which you refer is due to this. After all, who wants to spend the best part of 2 hours fighting through some of the longer missions in the game, just to die on the final boss because one of your monks does something retarded due to inexperience? This is one of the reasons that PuGs are so unpopular nowadays.

I really don't think it would be an issue if there were say four times as many 30min missions - people would be more laid back. Then, if you fail, you haven't lost out so much.

vergerefosh · Oct 01, 2007, 07:24 AM // 07:24

It is becoming tedious. Latest char I created was factions, because I couldn't bear the NF sunspear point grind again, and I'm getting back into it and it's fun. Been playing through with some friends, it's enjoyable.

One of the bigger problems is that as heroes have come in, people play with heroes, which don't critique their builds, so they can keep playing with a horrible build and not realise it, and then one day they try to pug, and discover their build is horrific. I accept I could be just as guilty as anyone, but it's something to face up to.

Admittedly I played my warrior and assassin through factions mostly with heroes, but that was a combination of not wanting to stand around setting up a team for 3/4 of an hour before some person leaves and have to start again when I have a limited time on the computer.

One problem the PuG has, is that whilst it can be fun to play through with other players, and can give a real sense of satisfaction and achievement, is that it can take a long time to set up for the mission that is being done, and then you can get people who act stupidly, disappear to do something without telling anyone, draw random things on the map (will admit that I've done that) and numerous other things.

It can be fun playing through and helping people, but so many people are defensive these days. If you try and give them a reasonable critique of their build, they'll insult you and tell you to F off etc etc, even if their running 2 or 3 maintained enchants on a war, with a high energy bar or whatever.

I remember when I made a mesmer over a year ago now, someone ran up and gave me an Illyana's Staff, no idea who they were, I was amazed. How likely is that to happen now?

Hyper.nl · Oct 01, 2007, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Hm, this thread is a large collection of everything said thousand times ealier in these forums. But I do like to see that the game rewards both dedication/time as skill/builds/strategy. I actually like the R5 requirement of the armors as variation of the money/material only armors as we know them. R5 is reached quite easily with only very little grinding. (Only a few hours for me) You'll just have to complete the quests and always get the blessing while you are in the area's for other reasons (Like questing)

My only problem is the amount of grinding required to max the new titles. I'm working on KoaBD title track and planned to get some GW:EN titles to contribute to this. But considering the amount of grinding needed for these titles to be maxed seems to be huge. Together with the lack of a real protector and cartographer title it's becoming hard to get any progress here.

I do like the new consumables. Finally some bonus items that work on your entire party, so for the first time a nice bonus usable for hero/hench parties. I used some last weekend to complete the Sorrows Furnace. SF is a hard place to get a good PUG nowadays, but because I'm a late starter with Guild Wars I still had to complete it. And it's finally a good use for skill points and stacks of materials.

Some parts of the Eye of the North felt a bit rushed tho. Especially the Hall of Monuments was far from completed and some dungeons/quest had it's issues. It really could have used some more testing and development before release. But well, thinggs already have been improved here, and I'm quite sure more fixes and improvements will be made to the Hall of Monuments later. Personally I'm still hoping for an account-based HoM with account-based minipets and more weapons to be addable to the weapons monument. (Like tormented stuff and high-end greens) Well, we'll have to wait and see.

In the bottom line I have to say that I greatly enjoyed the Eye of the North expansion. The above issues do not mean that I'm disappointed by the entire game. Overall GW:EN rocks!

Lord Sojar · Oct 01, 2007, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by vergerefosh

It is becoming tedious. Latest char I created was factions, because I couldn't bear the NF sunspear point grind again, and I'm getting back into it and it's fun. Been playing through with some friends, it's enjoyable.

One of the bigger problems is that as heroes have come in, people play with heroes, which don't critique their builds, so they can keep playing with a horrible build and not realise it, and then one day they try to pug, and discover their build is horrific. I accept I could be just as guilty as anyone, but it's something to face up to.

Admittedly I played my warrior and assassin through factions mostly with heroes, but that was a combination of not wanting to stand around setting up a team for 3/4 of an hour before some person leaves and have to start again when I have a limited time on the computer.

One problem the PuG has, is that whilst it can be fun to play through with other players, and can give a real sense of satisfaction and achievement, is that it can take a long time to set up for the mission that is being done, and then you can get people who act stupidly, disappear to do something without telling anyone, draw random things on the map (will admit that I've done that) and numerous other things.

It can be fun playing through and helping people, but so many people are defensive these days. If you try and give them a reasonable critique of their build, they'll insult you and tell you to F off etc etc, even if their running 2 or 3 maintained enchants on a war, with a high energy bar or whatever.

I remember when I made a mesmer over a year ago now, someone ran up and gave me an Illyana's Staff, no idea who they were, I was amazed. How likely is that to happen now?

Yes, PUGs do have lots of issues, but the way to fix it would make it so that even if a players skill level was a bit below the rest of the groups, it would simply teach that player more skill rather then making the group suffer.

I try to hand out the things that I can. I gave a friend a Torment shield the other day, she had been trying for 5 months to get one, and I felt sorry for her. Made her cry.

That type of kindness is still seen, but it is general kindness that seems to be lacking. You don't have to give out free stuff to be seen as a nice person, or do you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper.nl

Hm, this thread is a large collection of everything said thousand times ealier in these forums. I do like to see that the game rewards both dedication/time as skill/builds/strategy. I actually like the R5 requirement of the armors as variation of the money/material only armors as we know them. R5 is reached quite easily with only very little grinding. (Only a few hours for me) You'll just have to complete the quests and always get the blessing while you are in the area's for other reasons (Like questing)

My only problem is the amount of grinding required to max the new titles. I'm working on KoaBD title track and planned to get some GW:EN titles to contribute to this. But considering the amount of grinding needed for these titles to be maxed seems to be huge. Together with the lack of a real protector and cartographer title it's becoming hard to get any progress here.

I do like the new consumables. Finally some bonus items that work on your entire party, so for the first time a nice bonus usable for hero/hench parties. I used some last weekend to complete the Sorrows Furnace. SF is a hard place to get a good PUG nowadays, but because I'm a late starter with Guild Wars I still had to complete it. And it's finally a good use for skill points and stacks of materials.

The Rainbow Phoenix is a great example of rewarding those with the TIME spent to grind. My mother is very sick right now, and I don't have time to play anymore. I will never see r2 of that title track in order to get a Phoenix. And while I am not complaining because I don't care, it does make it feel like punishment not being able to get that pet by any other means but grinding.

In reality though, and I must stress this, it isn't the grind that has made me angry. It is the fact that Arena Net has betrayed veteran players, going back on the founding principle of the game, Skill is worth more then Time. Time spent rewards players with the riches, the special items, and the glory. Skill rewards nothing anymore. This design flaw can only fall on one... Arena Net.

dameros · Oct 01, 2007, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Very good post. I totally agree.

Let's look at Proph. Most people puged, you didn't get called a noob for running mending on a war, people just rolled with it or kindly asked you to changed it. There was no grind, none.

Now let's look at NF and GWEN. Basically no pugs around, most players are very mean to "noobs/newbies". TONS of grind.

How did we get to this........ah, the good old days.

Anet, I suggest that if you want people to buy GW2 you better stick to your promises and gain the communitys trust again. You've royally screwed up GW. Anet, who took pride in being different and original is now just another sheep following in the footsteps of mainstream MMOs.

Anet, if you want people to grind, give them rewards that are WORTH the time! Not some bullsh!t reskinned armors.

Lord Sojar · Oct 01, 2007, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by dameros

Very good post. I totally agree.

Let's look at Proph. Most people puged, you didn't get called a noob for running mending on a war, people just rolled with it or kindly asked you to changed it. There was no grind, none.

Now let's look at NF and GWEN. Basically no pugs around, most players are very mean to "noobs/newbies". TONS of grind.

How did we get to this........ah, the good old days.

Anet, I suggest that if you want people to buy GW2 you better stick to your promises and gain the communitys trust again. You've royally screwed up GW. Anet, who took pride in being different and original is now just another sheep following in the footsteps of mainstream MMOs.

Anet, if you want people to grind, give them rewards that are WORTH the time! Not some bullsh!t reskinned armors.

They shouldn't want people to grind in the first place. But again, Guild Wars is finished, the only hope that can be held is for Guild Wars 2. If Arena Net can make a unique game again, and not be swayed by those that want it to become a traditional MMO again, they will succeed and have a thriving happy fanbase.

Lord Sojar · Oct 01, 2007, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrath of m0o

Cry me a river...
You know how long it got me to grind/farm my FoW armor?
I just broke SIX THOUSAND hours and just recently purchased my second set of FoW armor. And no.. i dont buy online gold.. I farmed/traded every coin.
I think you can kill a few baddies for a week to get yours.

And as for the OP on Crappy reskinned armor...

Thank You Anet for not completly destroying a reason to get FoW armor.
I was a little dissapointed with some of the Nightfall armor, thinking it was really close to coming into competition with FoW.

This game suits multiple peoples playstyles...I have never played anygame as Complex and versitile a Guildwars, and i still consider it to be my favorite game.

The armor isn't the issue, the grind isn't the issue, the titles are not the issue. It is the betrayal of their original vision, their promise of a unique MMO where Time<Skill. That vision is all but gone now, and it is my hope the vision finds a new emergence in Guild Wars 2.

I could careless about the armors to be honest. I got Dwarven armor on my male monk Lord Sojar just before I have basically quit the game. I have quit Guild Wars due mainly to real life issues, but also impart because I feel completely betrayed, and lied to by ArenaNet.

Wrath of m0o · Oct 01, 2007, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna

Well: I will personally say that I am sick of the grinding to rank 5 to get armor deal

Cry me a river...
You know how long it took me to grind/farm my FoW armor?
I just broke SIX THOUSAND hours and just recently purchased my second set of FoW armor. And no.. i dont buy online gold.. I farmed/traded every coin.
I think you can kill a few baddies for a week to get yours.

And as for the OP on Crappy reskinned armor...

Thank You Anet for not completly destroying a reason to get FoW armor.
I was a little dissapointed with some of the Nightfall armor, thinking it was really close to coming into competition with FoW.

This game suits multiple peoples playstyles...I have never played anygame as Complex and versitile a Guildwars, and i still consider it to be my favorite game.

arcanemacabre · Oct 01, 2007, 07:52 AM // 07:52

I definitely see what you're saying, Rahja, and I totally agree. I've never really noticed it before these past couple of weeks, either. One of the main reasons I was so addicted to Guild Wars was because it was a great game for my wife and I to play together. Well, the past couple of weeks, she couldn't play because of an injury to her right arm, and I played a bit on my own. I noticed how incredibly bored I got playing on my own. It then hit me - people play like this a lot.

Oh yeah, I was efficient. Got my heroes up to perfection, capped a ton of elites, even did a couple of dungeons all by my lonesome (also noticed how much easier certain things are, like the Golemancer quest, with just H/H). What I realized was that Guild Wars PvE is just a giant farming ground. I stopped playing after a week of that. Of course, if I continued playing, I'd have to start Pugging and PvPing or something. Yeah, cause I hate pretty much all grinding.

Still, it is fun playing GW with my wife, and the occasional get-together with friends, but alone? Hell no. The grind really shows itself when you play alone. At least it does to me. I start to feel like there is this "To Do" list: go cap these skills, try this build, farm this green, do these dungeons, grind these titles, uncover these areas of the map, etc. I just find it really hard to just "do stuff" for the fun of it unless there is someone else to enjoy it with me and discuss things.

Heh, and all this coming from the anti-social bastard that I am.